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[PATRICK FLEURENT]

Hi Folks,

I am looking for a baseline estimate of efforts for AX 2012 R3 implementation by module, to plan at very high level what is the budget needed for our integration, in the F&B industry.

Is there anything provided by MS of can anybody give a high level estimation of the configuration efforts for a vanilla AX integration in this industry ?

tks !

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PATRICK FLEURENT
CFO
CITADELLE
PLESSISVILLE
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[Corey Vantilborg]

We  are a discrete manufacturer,  so the industry is not quite the same.  One thing to keep in mind is that the AX application is quite general.  For example,  AX has production module,  which has all the basic functionality one might expect(BOMs, Routes, Productions, etc),  however that functionality is not specific to any industry, or process.  As a result we have found it necessary to customize AX in a large number of ways to support our specific process requirements, most of these customizations are very minor but make a big difference to the end user.

This is what makes gauging timelines so difficult.  A careful fit/gap analysis is required to determine how much customization will be required. Further training of end-users cannot be overlooked.   Ultimately the total cost will come down your organization and it’s management.  

My best suggestion is to make sure that you have a clear contract with your partner which spells our the exact expectations from each side, and has built in resolution steps for when things go wrong.

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Corey Vantilborg
ERP Analyst
Tigercat International Inc.
Brantford ON
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[Andrew Lencsak]

I agree with pretty much everything stated above. In food and beverage mfg, you most likely will need to look at Process mfg functionality as it holds more options than if you were a Discrete manufacturer who just assembles. There’s content out there on AXUG webinars describing the differences in setups and webinars between Discrete and Process. From a partner perspective, the shortest implementation I have been a part of was minimal customizations (mostly reporting and small odds and ends), 40 end users, only integration was payroll, for a Manufacturer who did assembly only using AR, AP, GL, Sales, Procurement, inv. mgt., HR, Production control with Time and Attendance and had only one legal entity and that was about 6 months. I’d say out of the 6 months, the consultants were maybe 60% of the time working on the project and that client was 75-80% working actively on the implementation with a group of 8 to 10 SMEs.

It really does depend on your business processes, what you’re willing to say is a Want vs a Need for your first Go Live and having your resources available. If you have a team dedicated 100% of the time to the project, it can be much quicker, but if they are end users or SMEs who also need to do daily activities outside of the implementation, that’s a major consideration in your timeline. You also need to weigh methodology, i.e. are you planning on an Agile implementation and doing sprints and incremental updates of certain areas or are you planning on going all in and getting everything up and running for the first rollout?

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Andrew Lencsak
Senior Application Consultant
eBECS US
Atlanta GA
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[Christine Speedy]

Panorama Consulting puts out a lot of good reports about ERP implementation, including costs. If you can’t find the answer in one of them, someone there could probably give you a wide range estimate. 

http://panorama-consulting.com/resource-center/

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Christine Speedy
CenPOS
Global Sales
Miami FL
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[GG Rowe]

Agree with others that it is hard to provide a stock estimate.  There are many factors that need to be considered in an estimate:

1. Are you converting from a legacy ERP?  Typically this means that you need to include data conversion in your estimate.  Also you need to strategize on what to do with historic data.  I advise putting history into a data warehouse or leaving the legacy system up for a period of time.
2. Do you have integrations to consider?  This will also add to the estimate if you need to integrate AX with other applications.
3. Do you have your business processes mapped?  If you have this all defined, it will make your AX implementation easier and consulting time will be less.  Processes may change with AX but if you have clearly defined processes, it give you a jump start with mapping to AX.
4. Chart of accounts – this is typically a hard one.  Do you know how you want to account for things?  There can be a mapping effort from your old COA to what you might want in AX.
5. Do you know if you will need any customizations?  If so, then this will also add to the estimate.

I’ve seen anything between 9 and 18 months as an estimate, if you need to consider all of the above.  It also depends on how big of a team you have internally, how much time they can allocate, and how much consulting you plan to allocate.

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GG Rowe, PMP
Oregon Chapter Leader
Chapter url: http://www.axug.com/portland
IT Applications Manager
Planar Systems, a Leyard company
Beaverton, OR 97006
USA
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[Paul Martin]

GG is absolutely correct. The time for an implementation has many determining factors. There are many things you can do that will make the process easier and possibly shorter, but a typical 2012 implementation is 9 to 15 months in my experience. 
There are things like the processes mapped as GG said, and how well you have prepared for your chart of accounts as this is one of the bigger pieces, how clean is your data, what effort level is the data cleanup? How experienced is your internal team and have you allowed them to have a major time commitment to the project? What is the technical level of in-house staff (developers, business analyst? How many implementations has your Partner done? How much customization will you need to have? (This is a major factor in timelines). Are you governed by regulations such as SOX, etc.? Is your implementation for a single location or multiples? As you can see it is very hard to give an exact timeframe, but by weighing all the factors in you and your partner should be able to come up with an acceptable timeline.

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Paul Martin
Expert ERP Analyst
TempurSealy Inc.
Trinity NC
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[Allen Rupp]

Well, I am in year two of an install and I am uncertain if we will hit the current GoLive date.

If you want specifics, please email me directly.

Thanks,
Allen Rupp

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Allen Rupp
Purchasing Manager
Woodland Foods
Waukegan IL
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[Paul Martin]

Allen,

  please feel free to reach out to me through my profile, I would be glad to see if I have any suggestions based on your thoughts and observations.

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Paul Martin
Expert ERP Analyst
TempurSealy Inc.
Trinity NC
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[Gabor Fulop]

Hello Patrick,

If you want to estimate, the first step is to assess your requirements.  Not only system functionality, but business complexity too.  Do you have quality, product or manufacturing complexities?  How prepared is your team internally to support the project?  If they are already stressed, then plan extra resources to support operations, process documentation, etc.  Absolutely critical to have an internal PM experienced with AX projects.  If not too late, consider D365.

Some firms may try to provide an estimate, but the safest way is to start with a small engagement for just the Diagnostic phase (using Sure Step terminology).  These projects range from $1 to 10 million and more depending on complexity, number of sites and users.

Best regards,
Gabor

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Gabor Fulop
Business Applications Project Manager
Airbus DS Communications
Temecula CA
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[Barr Snyderwine]

We did those modules without production added project and took 1 yr and 4 to 5 man years
the use of each module and functionality is very different depending on your business processes and your requirments
In particular production is very different by company

Sorry to say I have not seen any rules of thumb like 2 times the software cost (like the old days of erp)
Even estimates require more detailed analysis.
the margin of error at the highest level stets at 100% and goes up

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Barr Snyderwine
Hargrove, Inc.
Lanham MD
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[Barry Cole]

I agree with the other contributors to the conversation, but offer another consideration. You did not provide detail on your business model. But, ask yourself “how vanilla an implementation can we as a business tolerate”?  

In MTS, ATS, or distribution companies with very simple requirements, a quick, vanilla implementation may be acceptable and can serve the company’s needs. But on the other side of the business model spectrum, even small ETO or services companies tend to have very complex operating models that can easily require long and extended time to relevant modules. Examples might include enabling the operational/organizational changes needed to transition to AX lean or project-based operations.

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Barry Cole
ERP Business Executive
The OPSDOC
North Carolina
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[Krupa Shah]

Patrick,

AX is an ERP system which is designed to handle a lot of different requirements. Without knowing your business process & out of that how many processes you are planning to implement within AX, you will not get a clear idea on timeline & cost. Customizations required will take up most of the time & cost of the project.

Overall, you should consider that it is possible to go live within 6 months with major customizations covered. But it will depend on how prompt your team is in testing & your comfort level & trust on the implementation partner. You need to clarify each & every thing before getting an estimate and signing a contract, no doubt should be there even on a single point. Only then you can achieve the go live date that you want.

Coming to the estimates, it differs a lot based on the implementation partner that you are choosing, licenses that you require & the customizations that you want. It’s really hard to estimate it this way. A better option is to contact an implementation partner, talk about your requirements & get an estimate. Let me know if I can help you further.

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Krupa Shah
AX Techno-Functional Project Lead
Apps N Stuff
079-48002735
Ahmedabad India
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[Pirmin Bercher]

Hi Patrick,

well without more infomation about what / detaillevel / functions any guess can be right .. or wrong.
We (customer, highly experienced) implemented AX 2012 R2 (General ledger,  Accounts payable, Accounts Recievable, Procurement and sourcing, Fixed assets , production and Project ) last year 2 times .. once in about 3 months turn around ( ~ 1 man year) for an Installation with 30 users in UK and once in about 6 months ( ~2 man years) for an Installation in China 60 users.. both of them were successfull.. both are diffrent .. both are surely using all functions in all the depth .. 

Let me know if need more
Regards
Pirmin

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Pirmin Bercher
Head Business-IT Alignment
CARBOGEN AMCIS
Switzeland
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[PATRICK FLEURENT]

Hi Pirmin,

for me to have a rough cut baseline, would you be able (and comfortable) to provide me with the spent hours per high level module (General ledger, production, projects, etc…) for your 30 users implementation ?

With a margin of error, I would surely be able to make some kind of high level estimate.

tks !

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PATRICK FLEURENT
CFO
CITADELLE
PLESSISVILLE
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[Pirmin Bercher]

Hi Patrick,

as the others said .. there is no “rule of thumb” or so.
In our case we had already the chart of accounts, booking rules , item groups , rules for them  and all this stuff as a corporate setup defined. We are also an experienced customer ( using AX since 2002..) So we had mainly to adjust to local needs (VAT / accoutning Standards..) and adjust functionality to local needs.

If you build up from scatch you need to think a lot about parameters, settings, rules etc. You also need to look in depth of usage .. Setting up  purchasing orders can be easy ..  “just add  vendor, item and do order” but on the other hand  if you go international vat reporting  , use rebate, partial delivert, backdelivery, vendor qualifcation.. it can be multiple time of the setup of the pruchasing orders.

Next thing which can eat up many resources is printouts/ reports. most companys i know do not use the standard printouts for external communication (PO, SO..) defining  them and implemting is also time consuming.

Interfaces to external Systems are always crucial

Don’t understimate Training…

In my worklife i used the std rule: 1:3  If your  Consultant offers  1day  you need 3 days internally to check, define , setup , test..

Maybe this helps
Regards
Pirmin

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Pirmin Bercher
Head of Business – IT Alignment
CARBOGEN AMCIS
Aarau
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